Logic-based Infallible Godlike AI

Feb 14 Sun 12:00 PM
Location
TechShop

120 Independence Dr.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
800-640-1975

This is a private home or office

Estimated attendance
 20  people attended.
3.50 3.506 (6 ratings)

Who organized?
Monica

All the puzzlers in the previously announced topic - "Mary's Room, the Chinese Room, Zombies, Bats, and Qualia" are already scheduled to be discussed by Bob Blum in his talk on 2/28/10 . My apologies for the confusion.

Note that the time for the meetup on 2/14 is noon, as with almost all AI meetups.

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Instead we will debate the topic "Logic-based Infallible Godlike AI".

We'll debate what a logic based AI might be like. Things like how it would behave, what strengths and weaknesses it might have, and whether it could be outsmarted by lesser intelligences such as ourselves. We will also discuss whether these kinds of Intelligences are possible in the first place.

This will be informal. We will be lazy and only define our terms as needed, whenever someone asks for a definition. We'll describe a few different kinds of possible AIs and bracket a few levels of Infallibility. One important question is whether we believe these AIs will have control of nanoTechnology (nT) level devices. We'll discuss both possibilities. Another important issue is whether we think there will be one or many such AIs on our planet.

We'll start with simple and reasonably probable near-future AI systems and work our way up. I'd like to see a "Plausibility Path" for every kind/level of AI we decide to discuss: No miraculous steps in a path from where we are today. I realize this is very difficult but we're not doing this rigorously; this is for entertainment purposes (our own).

Full disclosure: I believe Logic-based Infallible Godlike AIs are impossible and/or useless; I have discussed this in an AI MeetUp. You can watch the video "Bizarre Systems" at http://videos.syntien... if you missed it and would like to catch up.

If this gets boring we'll discuss something else.

Photos of this Meetup

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Talk about this Meetup

  • Kevin Cameron
    Posted Feb 15, 2010 3:46 PM
  • Mike MacLeod
    Posted Feb 15, 2010 1:30 PM
    I thought it too chaotic as well, but I was both entertained and enlightened - about AI, AN, ontology, systems theory, and Asperger's syndrome, to name a few topics.
  • Lex Ricketts
    Posted Feb 15, 2010 1:17 PM
    It also concerns me that some bring nothing to the table but an expectation of entertainment. Where does one go that these kinds of expectations are met? Add nothing get entertained. When anything is constructed, it doesn?t start with the most beautiful, elegant and rational first At this stage of the game, if you don?t come to build than go to a movie. This is not to say that I among others didn?t need to work on their com skills. OK that one is a given.
  • Lex Ricketts
    Posted Feb 15, 2010 1:17 PM
    This last meetup or meatup, as some may see it, superficially may have seemed entangled, short sided and confusing; but underneath this, I felt was a definite desire to air our differences and build. It was my goal to not be narrowed by any need to simply just get along. And obviously, getting along didn?t get in my way! However, it concerns me that the need of those who expect an end to chaos to come to them without any contribution of there own, will be sitting in their desert a long time.
  • Randall Reetz
    Posted Feb 14, 2010 9:16 PM
    These group discussion meetings are great! I love the crazy mix of emotionally driven territoriality and monotone logical diatribes. Somehow, as the discussion smashes drunk from wall to wall, we come to a greater understanding, if not of the topology of AI itself, certainly of the human range of reactions to it. I can't think of a domain where the reaction range is so salient to the subject being explored. Tasty nuggets of sentience are unearthed each time we jaw it up at the AI slop trough.
  • Logic-based Infallible Godlike AI happened on February 14, 2010 12:00 PM
  • Kevin B
    Posted Feb 11, 2010 9:34 AM
    The disconnect between the ideas of logic and infallability are well-worn topics in theology and anti-theology, at least as far back as Aquinas & Anselm - here's a recent salvo in that perpetual argument: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
  • Randall Reetz
    Posted Feb 9, 2010 11:29 PM
    I like the Infallible Godlike AI topic.

Who attended?

  • 20 attendees
    •  In the movie "One Flew Over The Cookoo's Nest" there is a scene wherein the loonies steal their way onto a boat for a day on ocean fishing? When a suspicious guard asks, Jack Nicholson's character "Randall Patric McMurphy" proudly introduces the wards as professors and researchers. There is something about the discussion of AI that reduces otherwise normal people into raging nuts, something wonderful about a forum that allows all of us to peel away the onion's layers and see where logic falls prey to previously hidden preconceptions and ignorance. Godel's mirror has a way of humbling the best minds. God might be infallible, but public discussions about the nature of intelligence reduce each of us to fumbling pre-literal cave dwellers. Evidence for the need for many more discussions and even more hours of inward pointed exploration. Three cheers for topics that stump the mind. Mind itself seems to be the grand poo ba of mind stumping subjects. Mind and evolution both. 
    •  far too chaotic. 
    •  Artificial Intelligence has attempted to either model human thinking, like cell-based systems, or proscribe best behavior, like Expert Systems, with less error. A logic-base and infallible and god-like system has not been a goal of Artificial Intelligence research. Other observations on the discussions: Mathematics, like Differential Equations, shows that some physics problems are unstable. There will always be physical systems that can't be predicted, much less systems involving people, organizations like Iranian example. No system has complete information, including people or an AI-based system. God-like behavior, omniscience, is not possible. A model need not be constrained to its initial considitions. Models may be learned if an appropriate meta structure exists. Reductionist techniques are applicable to Artificial Intelligence. 
    • Lex Ricketts (+3 guests)
    • Reluctant Heretic

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